New player - dislike pay to win

[Kesstryl]

As a new player so far I've enjoyed so many aspects of this game, but the quest system of reaching 150 quests without failing 6 times is set up to make people who don't pay fail. It's not that I wouldn't pay for services for a game that I love, when I did my first two timed quests that required black gems, I thought it was fair and I only needed to pay a few to complete the quests. There is a payment option of spending a couple bucks for a hundred of them, and I thought, I can do that. But today I got a timed quest asking for 200 gems. No thanks! I don't need a game where I'm forced to pay a lot to receive an item that would help keep me on a level playing field with other players! That is not fair and I'm seriously thinking about not playing anymore. 5 or 10 gems is one thing, but 200? I don't have a job, and if I did, I'd rather use my gems to pay for research reductions and other things that benefit me, not stupid quests that make me discover a mine that someone else already owns and crap like that just to keep myself on a level playing field!

[Hexxus]

Something to remember is that you can find gems in Ruins...

As a suzerain farming 5-6* ruins I can earn ~1k black gems a week if I farm consistently.

This will be obviously much lower for an Esquire rank player, but know that it is possible to earn your gems in game.
Also you can bid on gems at the market, but this isn't plausible for a lower ranked player in my opinion as the higher ranked players will have more gold to bid/win.

Here's my advice though it may sound a little out of the ordinary:

Don't check your Quest Log, until you think you are ready.
If you see your councilor glowing and wants to tell you something, resist the urge to check him.
Try to save up black gems until you have enough to finish some quests or until maybe you can put in some dollar amount several times, perhaps you can only pay real money for black gems like you say maybe once a month or something you know?
If you don't look at the new quests you get with Time Limits, the timers never start. Therefor you can't fail them yet...make sense?

[Kesstryl]

I already lost the quest, but thanks for replying, wish I had seen this sooner. Yes the amount of gems for the low level quests is outrageous, and so now I won't get the artifact >.< Fortunately I'm in a good guild or I might have left the game, but the people I'm playing with are super cool and I enjoy contributing to their guild.

[WaY]

This quest can be done without spending ANY bg

[Hexxus]

This quest can be done without spending ANY bg

WaY, which are you referring to? The quest for 150 and Helm of the Divine?

[WaY]

Yup. This one

But it's much and fast work to do.

[Hexxus]

Yup. This one

But it's much and fast work to do.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean.
Could you elaborate for us?

[Vesire]

The quest for the helm cant be done without paying for BG, my opinion..
Too many time quests, and at lvl 1-2-3... you cant gather as much as they want.

( later in the game you'll receive an other chance for art 5 - 200 quests in a roll, GL)

[Hexxus]

The quest for the helm cant be done without paying for BG, my opinion..
Too many time quests, and at lvl 1-2-3... you cant gather as much as they want.

( later in the game you'll receive an other chance for art 5 - 200 quests in a roll, GL)

Vesire, technically it can be done, but only if you work at it extremely slowly and piecemeal like I said by not checking your quest log until you're ready. Presumably by getting to suzerain before building gems to complete quests.
This is really unlikely though as it would take exponentially longer to go through your quests...

That's why I'm not sure what WaY is saying by its fast to do. It's much work, but not fast!

[WaY]

Of course it's fast. There a lot of quests that activate after specified amount of time and that are bg's quests. You have to do many quests before quest-log block - and you can't let more than 4 timed quests appear. Then you have to do many quest without opening quest log - so you have to know in game quests which can be done without that. When you have few quests to goal you have to open quest log (4 quests fails) and do rest of quests as fast as possible.

[DemonDick]

I agree I play a lot of free games and the fact that you have to spend money to complete the quest is pretty low down dirty.I have spent money on numerous online games ,but never in the beginning of the game,takes me awhile to become vested but once i am i will spend.but now i probably wont here.I liken this to extortion,or the rabbit on the rail,some tactic a donald trump owned company would use,bait and switch the list goes on.pretty bad imo.

[Hexxus]

...I liken this to extortion,or the rabbit on the rail,some tactic a donald trump owned company would use,bait and switch the list goes on.pretty bad imo.

I think you'll find it interesting to know that the company behind MyLands is called ELYLAND INVESTMENT COMPANY LIMITED.

What do you think about that?

[Kesstryl]

...I liken this to extortion,or the rabbit on the rail,some tactic a donald trump owned company would use,bait and switch the list goes on.pretty bad imo.

I think you'll find it interesting to know that the company behind MyLands is called ELYLAND INVESTMENT COMPANY LIMITED.

What do you think about that?

I think they should learn how economies in games work and what draws players to play and spend. Games don't work like stock markets and investments. Some of us (pointing at myself as a USA player) can't withdraw from the black gems to make real money, and we are here to play a game.

Artifact prices are way through the roof expensive too. The gem to dollar ratio here is $2:19 per 100 gems. That makes level 1 artifacts over $20 bucks! I'm not even going to talk about the ones that cost more. I spend money in free to play games (and I did pay to get some gems for my 5th city) but I would never spend $20 for the lowest tier piece of gear. As is is, I don't plan to get to level 5 for a very long time, if I ever get there. I only play because I have an awesome guild with good people that make me want to play. If I was a solo player, I would have quit the first time I was presented with a quest that required me to pay in order to complete the 150.

[Hexxus]

I think they should learn how economies in games work and what draws players to play and spend. Games don't work like stock markets and investments.

I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to say here, nor if you know what you exactly mean. Do you know how economies in games work? Do you know what draws players to play and to spend?
If you've answered yes to those questions, perhaps you should look into a career in Game Marketing?

Some of us (pointing at myself as a USA player) can't withdraw from the black gems to make real money, and we are here to play a game.

Are you here to play a game, or here to withdraw money? It is a fact US residents can't withdraw money from the game, so knowing this, why would you play intent on withdrawing money and then finding yourself upset when you can't? If you are here to just play the game, then why should any of the money going in or out of it affect you? When you go to Chuck'E'Cheese are you there to have fun in the arcade and play-area, or are you there to obtain as many of the prizes as possible and complain how many tickets they cost??

Artifact prices are way through the roof expensive too.

They are supposed to be expensive, to discourage you from buying them straight out. It is offered though, as an outlet. Take this example, Amazon ( the company ) offers its employee's $1,000 to quit after their first year. This offer goes up $1,000 each year up to $5,000 the 5th year. The idea is that they want people who want to be in the company for the long-term, and if you're only in it for the paycheck and short-term then you should take the offer. Do you understand that they DO NOT everyone to take the offer, but it is provided as a way to make you think about your plans and it *can* be accepted? -- though not many do.
Artifacts can be found, or even bought with gems that a player has accumulated in game via ruins or Salt Lakes, or even won during the Flag Tournaments! -- without real money.

The gem to dollar ratio here is $2:19 per 100 gems. That makes level 1 artifacts over $20 bucks! I'm not even going to talk about the ones that cost more. I spend money in free to play games (and I did pay to get some gems for my 5th city) but I would never spend $20 for the lowest tier piece of gear.

I have to point out that ratio argument is flawed. Yes, that is a ratio you can purchase gems at, but the ratio gets better as you go up, you'll notice once you go to 1800+ gems for $19 it is suddenly not 2.19 cents per gem but closer to 1.1...anything in ANY market is like this. The more you buy, the cheaper it gets. If you want to buy 1 soda everyday then that's your choice. I, on the other hand, will choose to purchase a case of 48 sodas at a fraction of the cost ( known as a price-break ) you will pay after you buy each soda for its single (highest) price...

As is is, I don't plan to get to level 5 for a very long time, if I ever get there. I only play because I have an awesome guild with good people that make me want to play. If I was a solo player, I would have quit the first time I was presented with a quest that required me to pay in order to complete the 150.

I've never understood a complaint for paying in a free game. Does no one realize that someone is making this game? Someone spent many hours of their time and patience to plan and put together so people can play. So what if there are some outlets for them to earn some money? They didn't say you had to pay, they even offered you something in return -- the helmet...I think you're caught up in the fact that it is called a Quest and you ( like many I assume and myself ) have a stigma against failing quests. Think that you are not failing it, you are choosing not to complete that quest.
What you don't understand is that if no money ran through the game, there would be no game.

[Kesstryl]

I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to say here, nor if you know what you exactly mean. Do you know how economies in games work? Do you know what draws players to play and to spend?
If you've answered yes to those questions, perhaps you should look into a career in Game Marketing?

Well, be that as it may, no I'm no expert, but this is the only game I've ever played that makes such an overt attempt to make you pay with real money or face the consequences. So, compared with other free to play/pay to play games, the psychology this game uses to make you spend money is rather greasy. It's using fear tactics, basically you need to pay this money now or lose out on an end game piece of gear and thus be weaker than other players. Most games don't punish you by making you pay for a series of quests that you have to pay to complete.

Some of us (pointing at myself as a USA player) can't withdraw from the black gems to make real money, and we are here to play a game.

Are you here to play a game, or here to withdraw money? It is a fact US residents can't withdraw money from the game, so knowing this, why would you play intent on withdrawing money and then finding yourself upset when you can't? If you are here to just play the game, then why should any of the money going in or out of it affect you? When you go to Chuck'E'Cheese are you there to have fun in the arcade and play-area, or are you there to obtain as many of the prizes as possible and complain how many tickets they cost??

I never said I played to withdraw money. I merely stated that I am not playing this so I can withdraw money. My point is exactly what I said, I'm playing this to play a strategy game and NOT to withdraw money (partly because I can't anyway). What I've been upset about is the greasy methods of using the quest system to get people to pay money, instead of just relying on the fun of the game and a cash shop as motivation for people to pay for in-game services and things. I've already dug into my pockets and purchased the gems to get a 5th city because I was motivated. I was definitely not motivated to dig into my pockets to pay to complete a series of quests for things I really didn't want just to finish a series of quests. I understand that games have to make money to pay for development. I'm willing to contribute to that, but not through fear tactics.

Artifact prices are way through the roof expensive too.

They are supposed to be expensive, to discourage you from buying them straight out. It is offered though, as an outlet. Take this example, Amazon ( the company ) offers its employee's $1,000 to quit after their first year. This offer goes up $1,000 each year up to $5,000 the 5th year. The idea is that they want people who want to be in the company for the long-term, and if you're only in it for the paycheck and short-term then you should take the offer. Do you understand that they DO NOT everyone to take the offer, but it is provided as a way to make you think about your plans and it *can* be accepted? -- though not many do.
Artifacts can be found, or even bought with gems that a player has accumulated in game via ruins or Salt Lakes, or even won during the Flag Tournaments! -- without real money.

I haven't considered this. Point taken. Though I would like to point out that those who spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on this game will always be stronger and better than those who don't. It's called pay to win. People who have that kind of money to spend are not using strategy or skill or hard work to win, they are using their wallet to be better than everyone else. As for the free artifacts, the quest ones will not make a complete set for one hero (they are random and there are not many artifact quest rewards) and I have yet to see an artifact drop from a ruin. I've gotten a couple scrolls, but no artifacts, so I think the random number for getting one is so low that it funnels people into thinking they will never get one unless they buy one. I will not touch salt lakes at my current level, if I did, I'd have every suzerein within 10 kingdoms destroying me for it. For the flags, there is a cash shop option to increase the chances of finding them, again, pay to win. Only those who pay will have the chance of winning the tournaments and thus the artifacts are still paid for. Most ruins only have 1 gem in them. Yes I've seen a couple with more, but that's like once a month. It would take years to save the free gems to pay for one cash shop artifact (maybe months for a tier 1, but then what about all those science skills that require black gems?). Let's face it, a suzerein with lots of real money buying black gems is going to faceroll the suzerein who relied on free artifacts.

I guess the big question here is what do the developers want more, a few high spending players or many smaller spenders? Which type of player will give more money in the long run? How will it affect the popularity and reputation of the game? I can't answer that, as you've already pointed out I'm no game marketer, but with the current model, many players will stop playing when they realize they will be forced to spend money to compete (as evidenced by the masses of new players that join and then stop playing and disappear after a month).

The gem to dollar ratio here is $2:19 per 100 gems. That makes level 1 artifacts over $20 bucks! I'm not even going to talk about the ones that cost more. I spend money in free to play games (and I did pay to get some gems for my 5th city) but I would never spend $20 for the lowest tier piece of gear.

I have to point out that ratio argument is flawed. Yes, that is a ratio you can purchase gems at, but the ratio gets better as you go up, you'll notice once you go to 1800+ gems for $19 it is suddenly not 2.19 cents per gem but closer to 1.1...anything in ANY market is like this. The more you buy, the cheaper it gets. If you want to buy 1 soda everyday then that's your choice. I, on the other hand, will choose to purchase a case of 48 sodas at a fraction of the cost ( known as a price-break ) you will pay after you buy each soda for its single (highest) price...

Yes, the gem to dollar ratio goes down if you buy more of them. Some of those prices for larger gem lots would pay my rent for a year.

As is is, I don't plan to get to level 5 for a very long time, if I ever get there. I only play because I have an awesome guild with good people that make me want to play. If I was a solo player, I would have quit the first time I was presented with a quest that required me to pay in order to complete the 150.

I've never understood a complaint for paying in a free game. Does no one realize that someone is making this game? Someone spent many hours of their time and patience to plan and put together so people can play. So what if there are some outlets for them to earn some money? They didn't say you had to pay, they even offered you something in return -- the helmet...I think you're caught up in the fact that it is called a Quest and you ( like many I assume and myself ) have a stigma against failing quests. Think that you are not failing it, you are choosing not to complete that quest.
What you don't understand is that if no money ran through the game, there would be no game.

Can I point out again that I had already previously stated that I'm not opposed to buying stuff to support a game? Did I not say I had already bought the gems to research my 5th city? Please go re-read what I already said in the previous posts, you will see that you are not proving something new to me. Yes I chose to fail the quest because I was against the whole idea of being forced to to pay money for stuff I didn't want just so I could complete the quest. I wanted the city, I paid for the city. I didn't want to be forced to pay for quests, I didn't pay for the quests. I guess I'm one of those people who doesn't like being forced into things.

I would also like to point out that in my original post that it wasn't the small spending quests that got me riled up. I paid for 2 quests before I decided it wasn't worth it to keep going. It was when I got a quest asking for a hundred black gems to complete it that I really got fed up. At that point in the game I wasn't exactly committed to keep playing, and to push high spending quests requiring real money purchases on new players is a bad idea. Many will stop playing at that point.

I know this game was originally marketed in Russia, maybe the economy is different there. In America we are used to supporting games via subscriptions and cash shops, but we don't like "buy this now or face the consequences" tactics. I did recently see a quest to buy an artifact at a fraction of the cost of the cash shop ones, and also a 3 for 1 scroll offer. I bought the scroll offer (let me mention again motivation, it was a good offer). I might buy artifacts at a fraction of the cost of cash shop ones when they come around (if I like what is being offered. The one that was recently offered was useless to me).

I think this game would probably succeed and draw more players by getting rid of the pay to win tactics, and offer more deals and rewards to motivate people to keep playing (the 4th of July science boost was really nice, and I appreciate rewards like that). Then through the enjoyment of the game and wanting more, players will pay for things. I've see hoards of new players come in and most of them don't stay. I was almost one of those players. I'm letting you know why I almost quit. I'm trying to let you know what might help stop others from quitting. Will my opinions change anything? Probably not. At least this is a chance for the developers to pick a player's brain.

[Hexxus]

I'm mostly playing Devil's Advocate on a lot of your questions, it doesn't mean I agree with the model entirely.
A lot of your points I agree with that they are a bit in-your-face but I believe it is the way they are presented.

There's definitely pay to win aspects that I think really negatively effect the game, especially because they favor the players you've described who can drop fat stacks on whatever they want.

I saw you say this is the only game you've played that extorts players to buy now or face consequences....

Have you ever played ANY cell-phone games? Almost every single game you play has a resource like Black Gems that players will undoubtedly need to purchase in order to do well. I of course don't play these games because they rely WAY too much on that, especially for how much substance they have. Mylands at least has a foundation free players can still reside in and do reasonably well. Many games do not offer the ability to obtain this currency in-game for free ( regardless of how slow it is ).

There is an insanely popular matching puzzle game you've probably heard of called Candy Crush which extorts the player the most I've ever seen where you can't even continue playing consecutive games because it puts a timer on the game that you have to wait. If you do not want to wait, you can pay the 'black gem' equivalent and continue to play the game right there. What does that even mean?? This is only one example of how the game reaches into your pocket.
I encourage you to take a look at a lot of other games and see how they extort players in similar, if not more extreme, ways.