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 Post subject: Staged Battles
PostPosted: 18 Jan 2018, 17:52 
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Esquire

Joined: 18 Aug 2016, 23:33
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We have seen many players banned for a few days to infinity for "staged battles"

From the name alone a staged battle implies that two parties conspired to make a battle have the outcome wanted.
This may be killing troops for faction or Exp for a hero, or gaining gold from one account to support a bigger accounts army. ect. . .


If so then why is it okay to pass flags to one another?


If Flags were not able to be stolen at all the game would make more money as well, players would have an actual chance to win rather than pay for the increased chance and watch the same few players win every tournament.

Day one and the leader already has 10+ sets yay.


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 Post subject: Re: Staged Battles
PostPosted: 18 Jan 2018, 22:24 
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Esquire

Joined: 03 Oct 2015, 03:11
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totally agree with you and doubt we are the only 2 players that feel investing in a flag tournament is just a waste of gems. if I thought I had a chance of doing well in a tournament I know I would definitely purchase the service to improve my odds on finding a flag and likely would increase my explorer speed as well. heck I might even go crazy and get premium so I could have explorers running automatic but the way it stands now purchasing these services wouldn't likely get me more than a level 1 or 2 artefact so why bother


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 Post subject: Re: Staged Battles
PostPosted: 19 Jan 2018, 20:03 
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McFarlin wrote:
If Flags were not able to be stolen at all the game would make more money as well, players would have an actual chance to win rather than pay for the increased chance and watch the same few players win every tournament.

If flags were not able to be stolen it would eliminate a huge part of the game. Tournaments would no longer be teamwork, but entirely chance, and in fact PAY to win.
The players win because of teamwork, not because of cheating. Many of the top scoring teams have lots of players that purchase the flag chance -- the exact thing you are saying.

Get your team/clan to step it up and you'll see results, trust me.

[On a side note: I scored 5th place in the Underground Lake tournament completely on my own. I understand that's a different tournament, but still worth noting.]

McFarlin wrote:
Day one and the leader already has 10+ sets yay.

This is a flawed or impossible statement -- there is always one rare flag each tournament and it doesn't even spawn for several days after the tournament starts. It cannot be "day one".

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 Post subject: Re: Staged Battles
PostPosted: 19 Jan 2018, 20:15 
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FairyLite wrote:
[...]doubt we are the only 2 players that feel investing in a flag tournament is just a waste of gems. if I thought I had a chance of doing well in a tournament I know I would definitely purchase the service to improve my odds on finding a flag and likely would increase my explorer speed as well.

Again, it is all about teamwork. Of course you won't out-perform a team of players who have all purchased the flag chance by yourself. I encourage you to rally your team/clan and you will see results -- but they have to be active and you gotta understand that it is possible.

FairyLite wrote:
heck I might even go crazy and get premium so I could have explorers running automatic but the way it stands now purchasing these services wouldn't likely get me more than a level 1 or 2 artefact so why bother

I will say this: you will never win a flag tournament if you don't have premium (read: automatic exploration and many explorers running) ...

That is like saying you play basketball, but only make a couple of free throws every now and then and never practice dribbling or layups, then wonder why you can't win a full game of basketball versus a team of coordinated, experienced players who play everyday. And they pay for premium gym membership and shoes. Do you catch my drift?
You need a team and the team must coordinate and practice flag tournaments. Placement, timing, hunting from other players, and definitely automatic explorers.

I'm not trying to talk down, I am just being real and trying to provide explanation.

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 Post subject: Re: Staged Battles
PostPosted: 20 Jan 2018, 04:28 
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Esquire

Joined: 18 Aug 2016, 23:33
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Hexxus wrote:
This is a flawed or impossible statement -- there is always one rare flag each tournament and it doesn't even spawn for several days after the tournament starts. It cannot be "day one".


Meaning the first day the third flag was released into the game, not the first day of the tournament.


And the post was more about staged battles than flags, i am all for team work. But to pass a flag from one to another you must in fact Stage a battle.
So if anything it needs to be cleared up as to what a staged battle is or stop using the term.
The staged battle excuse to ban players was used to stop players using a real staged battle to get faction or other quests completed.
But this is the same as the flags in that respect is it not?
A team working toward a goal. So why is one okay an the other not?

Point being consistency, if staging battles are not allowed then stop letting flag transfers happen, if they are okay then stop banning for staging them regardless of the situation.


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 Post subject: Re: Staged Battles
PostPosted: 20 Jan 2018, 08:37 
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Joined: 03 Oct 2015, 03:11
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having the opportunity to win in a tournament should not be open only to those who are part of a team. some of us prefer to win on our own merits and shutting us out of having a fair chance in tournaments is just one more reason why this game can not retain players. very few people will stay with a game where they feel the odds are against them advancing in any meaningful way and those who do stay will rarely bother to invest money since they are only here killing time and not trying to achieve anything


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 Post subject: Re: Staged Battles
PostPosted: 20 Jan 2018, 13:39 
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FairyLite wrote:
having the opportunity to win in a tournament should not be open only to those who are part of a team. some of us prefer to win on our own merits and shutting us out of having a fair chance in tournaments is just one more reason why this game can not retain players. very few people will stay with a game where they feel the odds are against them advancing in any meaningful way and those who do stay will rarely bother to invest money since they are only here killing time and not trying to achieve anything

Which is why I alluded to basketball or any team sport. Could even compare to a business. It is a team game (or at least the tournament is a team activity) so to feel excluded is the same misplaced disappointment as feeling excluded from being able to solo a basketball or football team -- it just doesn't match up.

We can change the example to an MMO raid boss -- you simply can't solo it because it (inherently) requires more players to work together.

Of course, if no one worked together to flag hunt then everyone would have a chance (FFA) -- but they do, which requires other teams to outperform the ones who decided to work together. It is the evolution of the tribe and survival (both in-game and in history). A small team can very easily place 3-25, I know from experience.

Do you have examples of something else that requires no teamwork and you can place top without paying to win? (I'm sure there's examples I'm just conversing)

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 Post subject: Re: Staged Battles
PostPosted: 20 Jan 2018, 13:43 
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McFarlin wrote:
Meaning the first day the third flag was released into the game, not the first day of the tournament.

I gotcha.


McFarlin wrote:
And the post was more about staged battles than flags, i am all for team work. But to pass a flag from one to another you must in fact Stage a battle.
So if anything it needs to be cleared up as to what a staged battle is or stop using the term.
The staged battle excuse to ban players was used to stop players using a real staged battle to get faction or other quests completed.
But this is the same as the flags in that respect is it not?
A team working toward a goal. So why is one okay an the other not?

I see and I agree, it should be clarified.

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 Post subject: Re: Staged Battles
PostPosted: 20 Jan 2018, 14:31 
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Esquire

Joined: 03 Oct 2015, 03:11
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Hexxus check the info on flag tournaments, there is no mention of having to be part of a team to participate. the only reason it is a "team sport" is because some have turned it into that. all players of the game should have an equal chance when participating and getting rid of flag transfers would do that

and I have nothing against me, or anyone else, paying to increase their chances of placing higher in the tourneys. the services are there and we all have the opportunity to purchase them if we want so I am not sure why you think I expect any of us to reach a higher placement without spending a few gems. what annoys me is that no matter how much any one individual spends at this time they have no chance of getting any thing better than a level 1 or 2 artefact. that is unfair, leads to disappointment and gives players just one more reason to walk away from this game


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 Post subject: Re: Staged Battles
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2018, 15:06 
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FairyLite wrote:
Hexxus check the info on flag tournaments, there is no mention of having to be part of a team to participate. the only reason it is a "team sport" is because some have turned it into that. all players of the game should have an equal chance when participating and getting rid of flag transfers would do that

and I have nothing against me, or anyone else, paying to increase their chances of placing higher in the tourneys. the services are there and we all have the opportunity to purchase them if we want so I am not sure why you think I expect any of us to reach a higher placement without spending a few gems. what annoys me is that no matter how much any one individual spends at this time they have no chance of getting any thing better than a level 1 or 2 artefact. that is unfair, leads to disappointment and gives players just one more reason to walk away from this game

I understand what you're saying, but I'm sort of counter-asking you what the fix would be.

Without flag robbing/transferring:
.:You'd rather none be allowed to pool flags/work together -- so everyone must work alone.
:.Okay, but flag chance is something found randomly. (Slightly more when chance purchased, still: chance)
.:So the only source of flags and creating sets will be entirely by chance.


Not much of a Tournament if winning it is entirely random, it might as well be called a Lottery. Do you agree?
I don't know about you, but I say a lottery factors in effort far less than something where your actions matter.

FairyLite wrote:
they have no chance of getting any thing better than a level 1 or 2 artefact. that is unfair, leads to disappointment and gives players just one more reason to walk away from this game

And again I must say, I've scored plenty of level 1 arts without even doing anything in the tournaments or paying for flag chance -- just by running my explorers on my own. Level 2 requires some more effort and taking from other players, but I've done that twice as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Staged Battles
PostPosted: 21 Jan 2018, 20:10 
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Joined: 18 Aug 2016, 23:33
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FairyLite wrote:
they have no chance of getting any thing better than a level 1 or 2 artefact. that is unfair, leads to disappointment and gives players just one more reason to walk away from this game



I greatly disagree with this statement, i have consistently won level three and four artifacts in both flags and lakes tournaments, even won a royal on the UK server.

My original point really was not about flags, hence the title being STAGED BATTLES. i just used flags as an example of a battle that must be staged to willingly give a flag to another player.

My point being that i don't like it being okay to stage battles for flags but not for EXP, quests or Faction. Pick one, staged battles are okay or they are not, but be consistent please.


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 Post subject: Re: Staged Battles
PostPosted: 22 Jan 2018, 00:15 
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Joined: 03 Oct 2015, 03:11
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McFarlin are you saying you won level 3 & 4 artefacts all on your own without any help? if so I am greatly impressed because that is a feat I would consider to be right up there in the miracle category :o

and I find it incredible you won a royal artefact on the UK server unless that was before the mergers and everyone one else was taking a break. I played on the UK server and it was not unusual to see the 1st place player have 100+ flag sets, I would not have thought a single individual working on their own could get any where close to that many flag sets


Last edited by FairyLite on 22 Jan 2018, 00:43, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Staged Battles
PostPosted: 22 Jan 2018, 00:42 
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Esquire

Joined: 03 Oct 2015, 03:11
Posts: 40
Hexxus getting rid of flag transfers will not make the tournaments only about chance. not all players will choose to buy the service to increase the odds of finding a flag. not all players will choose to buy premium if they don't already have it and not all players will be willing to put in the time to make sure their explorers are running constantly. individuals who do put in the effort though will have the opportunity of placing higher in the tournaments which is something we don't have at this time

and I too have gotten a level 1 artefact simply by doing nothing special but I would like the chance to get a level 3 or 4 artefact without having to recruit half the players on the map to help me


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 Post subject: Re: Staged Battles
PostPosted: 22 Jan 2018, 11:50 
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I will respond one more time in-full and then agree to disagree because I feel there is an inherent misunderstanding.

FairyLite wrote:
Hexxus getting rid of flag transfers will not make the tournaments only about chance.

The situation described is still entirely about chance, you're just saying some people will send more explorers than others. Every single explorer is chance. Which part of this scenario would be not about chance? One can run explorers 100% of tournament time and find less flags than someone who ran them 30% of the time -- it is chance, one simply had more dice rolls than the other -- or lotto ticket scratchers if you will.

FairyLite wrote:
not all players will choose to buy the service to increase the odds of finding a flag. not all players will choose to buy premium if they don't already have it and not all players will be willing to put in the time to make sure their explorers are running constantly.
Good...and that's why the tournament typically only has ~50 people scoring ... because the rest are these people described here and scoring nothing.

There is a term in chess for when a player makes moves that have both a good and bad outcome and sees it, but the player makes the move anyways hoping that his opponent doesn't see the option to swing things in their favor and does nothing about it so that the player can make the good move and win. It is called Hope Chess. These players are often disappointed when their opponents see the opportunity and capitalize on it.
You are trying to play Hope Flag Hunting, where no one sees the good move and you somehow collect flag sets while no one else collects, runs automatic, or works together.

FairyLite wrote:
individuals who do put in the effort though will have the opportunity of placing higher in the tournaments which is something we don't have at this time

As McFarlin and I already vouched -- it is very possible to score artifacts. In fact entirely because of the effort you are seeking...
My concern is that you don't realize what you actually want -- because if anyone could just win the tournament alone, you'd still probably never win because it'd be so easy to accidentally win that odds are some random guy would win rather than you with all your "effort".

FairyLite wrote:
and I too have gotten a level 1 artefact simply by doing nothing special but I would like the chance to get a level 3 or 4 artefact without having to recruit half the players on the map to help me

Check out the Bair's clan -- they're second place in (Royal) tournament and they're a little clan. (Also I meant I did literally nothing, because I have automatic explorers)

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 Post subject: Re: Staged Battles
PostPosted: 22 Jan 2018, 19:24 
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Esquire

Joined: 18 Aug 2016, 23:33
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FairyLite wrote:
McFarlin are you saying you won level 3 & 4 artefacts all on your own without any help? if so I am greatly impressed because that is a feat I would consider to be right up there in the miracle category :o

and I find it incredible you won a royal artefact on the UK server unless that was before the mergers and everyone one else was taking a break. I played on the UK server and it was not unusual to see the 1st place player have 100+ flag sets, I would not have thought a single individual working on their own could get any where close to that many flag sets


As for the winning on my own, check the rankings now. I have not had an ounce of help and i am currently set to get a level three artifact if it ended now.

How many explorers do you have and how many kingdoms do you explore?
I have 25 kingdoms covered and explore them all at least once a day, most of them twice a day with the 98 explorers i have. They run their butts off while i am at work.

And on the UK server i had a lot of help to win the royal tournament. 50+ players helping me to win, and it was the belt.

I assure you that unless you are going to take them by force you will not find many flags without premium and buying increased chance to find flags.


And if flags could not be stolen, everyone would simply change the way they play.

If this happened tomorrow i would tear up all of my cities and pits to gear them toward winning the flags.
More explorers in each domain, i would move cities farther apart to cover more ground and my pits would be used for the same thing.
And i am sure every player serious about winning would so something similar.


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 Post subject: Re: Staged Battles
PostPosted: 25 Jan 2018, 18:28 
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Joined: 18 Aug 2016, 23:33
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Here we are on the last day of the flags tournament, and. . . . . . Level three reward for playing solo in the tournament.


Very easy, little effort put into collecting them, in fact no effort at all. Auto explore and wait to see what they find.


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 Post subject: Re: Staged Battles
PostPosted: 25 Jan 2018, 21:59 
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Very nice McFarlin, grats.

I just have one quip that may or may not alter what you've fictionally planned here, but I'm just knit-picking.
McFarlin wrote:
More explorers in each domain, i would move cities farther apart to cover more ground and my pits would be used for the same thing.

Flags aren't "sitting" in domains they are generated randomly when an explorer arrives. They aren't "scattered" waiting for explorers to come scoop them. As quoted from the encyclopedia:

"The Flags can be found by Explorers. Unlike ruins flags are not placed in certain cells of kingdoms, they are generated in the cell with a certain chance in the moment your explorer reaches any cell."

In other words, you can explore the same domain with 100 explorers over and over (even in the same instant) and find the same amount of flags as them going everywhere -- the difference would be having automatic spread over more area would allow them to run for more time without you having to reset them.
You may have already known this and it was just semantics; I digress.

Grats again.

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 Post subject: Re: Staged Battles
PostPosted: 26 Jan 2018, 12:53 
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Esquire

Joined: 03 Oct 2015, 03:11
Posts: 40
actually Hexxus McFarlin is not wrong in his assumption covering more ground is beneficial. those of us who pay attention know that searching the same small area over and over is likely only to net you 2 flag colours and not the 3rd colour. whether the game is set up that way by design or it's only chance I couldn't say but it is normally the way it works. a couple of tournaments ago I redeemed a reward I had for premium as well as purchasing the service to increase my chances of finding flags. 2 of the cities I explore from are quite close and from them I found something like 13 blue flags and 7 green. the only 2 red flags I found was from a city not that close to my others. and during most tournaments (since I am actually not trying to find flags) I only get 2 colours since the area I look for ruins in is relatively small


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 Post subject: Re: Staged Battles
PostPosted: 26 Jan 2018, 18:17 
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Esquire

Joined: 18 Aug 2016, 23:33
Posts: 44
Hexxus wrote:
Very nice McFarlin, grats.


Flags aren't "sitting" in domains they are generated randomly when an explorer arrives. They aren't "scattered" waiting for explorers to come scoop them. As quoted from the encyclopedia:

"The Flags can be found by Explorers. Unlike ruins flags are not placed in certain cells of kingdoms, they are generated in the cell with a certain chance in the moment your explorer reaches any cell."



True, but this would be for more than flags, spreading out would help with Lakes as well. And finding better pits or if you get really lucky a lake not owned by a russian. But who am i kidding, we all know that will never happen.


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